UK new legislation about 'extreme images'

[cordoza]

Just thought I'd mention that the new UK legislation regarding extreme and obscene images, doesn't appear to include artwork, i.e. my pictures. However, I think UK people should read the rest of the legislation which might well outlaw some photographic images associated with S&M.

QUOTE from legislation:

458.     The people and the animals portrayed must appear to a reasonable person to be real.

459.     Subsection (8) sets out the definition of an image. It states that for the purposes of this offence, "an image" means either still images, such as photographs, or moving images, such as those in a film. The term "image" also incorporates any type of data, including that stored electronically (as on a computer disk), which is capable of conversion into an image. This covers material available on computers, mobile phones or any other electronic device. The scope of the definition of image is also affected by the requirement referred to above that persons and animals portrayed in an image must appear to be real. That requirement has the effect of excluding animated characters, sketches, paintings and the like.

Legislation web site:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2008/en/08en04-g.htm

[Quixote]

Good to know.  I was misinformed.

[Violet]

I can understand why this law is there.  But still...  It is ridiculous.

[cordoza]

This legislation came about, 'only' on the basis that 'one' UK young woman was murdered by a moron acting out non-consensual S&M on her. Note, that is one death out of a population of 60+ million. It beggars belief that our government is prepared to spend so much protecting such a microscopic statistical minority, yet lets tens of thousands of people die every year through the neglect and incompetence of the UK health and welfare system.

I might also add, that a certain Sunday newspaper that campaigned in this instance for the outlawing of S&M images, was the very same newspaper that I clearly remember advertising phone contacts for S&M sexual services on it's back pages during the 1980's. So, that paper is now hypocritically against what it so happily pioneered to introduce to the UK. If that young woman's death is anyone's fault, it might well be the fault of such a newspaper.

[Quixote]

Britain does have some very fine examples of really bad newspapers.

[Lex]

The effect of fantasy images on human behavior is very much in dispute.

Since I can't really discuss it with any actual knowledge, I will merely point out that the same Hollywood that goes around talking about 'how good they are for the community with the positive messages they send' around Oscar time turn around and claim that violent images have no real effect on behavior. You can't have it both ways.

The age old problem of 'correlation is not causation' is a problem here. People prone to violent behavior are going to explore the fantasy imagery available for the same reason that people look at naked bodies. The deeper question is does any kind of extreme image encourage behavior that would otherwise not happen.

My own guess is 'sometimes'. Human beings often need a catalyst to construct a workable idea, just like an engineer often needs a blueprint to build something complex. If you have never seen something before you have to have a certain level of creativity to construct the idea. I am fairly sure that some rapists, pedophiles and other criminals have used fantasy imagery as a catalyst for constructing actual scenarios to perform.

However, it is much like the issue of gun control (something near and dear to many of my fellow Texans). Making something illegal doesn't necessarily keep the criminals from doing it. What tends to happen is that people use laws to keep behavior close to acceptable norms within the society. Many laws act as nothing more than a form of social control.

I will admit it would be difficult to explain to a child why rape is a horrible crime if you then have to turn around and explain to them why you are in possession of materials showing explicit fantasy rape scenes. So I can see both sides.

But, being a libertarian I generally oppose legislation of this type.

- Lex

[Quixote]

I'd tell the kid that rape is a horrible crime because someone gets hurt and made to do something personal and intimate that no one should ever be forced into.  The picture on the other hand is just a picture, and no one got hurt or forced into something for it to be made.

If the kid is a smartass like I was and asks, "Ok, but why do you WANT the picture?" I'll respond with something along the lines of:

"Say, son, that reminds me.  Would you like us to go buy you a bicycle?"

[tenbar]

The UK is a nanny state.

[Quixote]

True in many ways.

[Emma]

I heard recently, ( i believe the site owners kept it quiet) that a vanilla site got busted for 'profiting on pornography' which is evidently illegal over there?  goodlord.  abbywinters.com does very mellow, pretty, vanilla stuff.  They are however still open for business so maybe they are big enough to challenge at least some of this nonsense.